An extraordinary comment by the pope -

Being just simply means being with Christ, being in Christ, that is all. The other precepts are no longer necessary. Luther’s expression ’sola fide’ is true, if faith is not against charity, against love. To believe is to see Christ, to trust in Christ, to become attached to Christ, to conform to Christ, to his life.

More comment here...

What do you find so extraordinary about the claim, Craig?

Interesting link, Craig. And the response to the report on that link was interesting too. I’ve mentioned this before, and got no response, so I’ll try one more time:
To understand how people can come up with different answers to things, it is useful to check if they are asking the same question. In very sweeping terms, I think that the Evangelical question is ‘how do I escape condemnation?’ while the Catholic question is ‘how does the human race escape sin?’ Evangelicals insist their question must be answered first in order to answer the second, while Catholics don’t appear to be quite so programmatic, perhaps because they do not feel so much the urgency of the Evangelical question.
Just musing.

Eric Henry Wynter Best - 22 November 2008 07:02 PM

Interesting link, Craig. And the response to the report on that link was interesting too. I’ve mentioned this before, and got no response, so I’ll try one more time:
To understand how people can come up with different answers to things, it is useful to check if they are asking the same question. In very sweeping terms, I think that the Evangelical question is ‘how do I escape condemnation?’ while the Catholic question is ‘how does the human race escape sin?’ Evangelicals insist their question must be answered first in order to answer the second, while Catholics don’t appear to be quite so programmatic, perhaps because they do not feel so much the urgency of the Evangelical question.
Just musing.

I think that this is a very interesting observation Eric and one which I think is correct, broadly speaking. It’s also clear that the question we choose is going to have a profound influence on the way in which we understand the gospel. It’s certainly a question that deserves closer examination.

It’s surprising Joshua because “faith alone” was one of the central issues of the Reformation, one of the areas that divided Catholics from Protestants. For the Pope to come out and say that Luther was right on this issue really is incredible.

Many catholics, even on these forums, have strongly objected to the term “faith alone”. Robert, for instance, has claimed it is a protestant invention. For the pope to come out and affirm this terminology puts him at odds with many other catholics.

It also puts him at odds with Trent, which condemned “faith alone” very strongly.

Craig Schwarze - 23 November 2008 12:24 AM

It also puts him at odds with Trent, which condemned “faith alone” very strongly.

Now I understand where you’re coming from. Thanks for explaining.

I would suggest you are mistaken about the Council of Trent, but it is an easy mistake to make. What Trent is opposing is “fides nuda” or naked faith, as typified by mere belief. However, Pope Benedict XVI is talking about “faith alone” in the qualified sense of “fides caritate formata” or faith formed by charity (love). It is this faith that saves and this has always been orthodox Catholic teaching.

Trent explicitly condemns the “faith alone” language -

CANON 9:  “If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified...let him be anathema.”

CANON 12: “If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ’s sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed”

CANON 14: “If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema.”

CANON 24:  “If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.”

It was clear enough to the Trent theologians that “faith alone” was protestant teaching and language. And it has been clear enough to other catholic apologists as well. For example, Robert has spoken very strongly against “faith alone” -

No one early Church figure preaches or teaches justification by Faith alone..which is the heart of the Gospel for evangelicals., and to Luther the mark of a standing or falling Church.

As Joshua has stated, the Pope is only reiterating 2000 years of Catholic teaching on justification by faith.  See what the Pope actually said here:
Article

Donna

Donna Green - 23 November 2008 11:24 AM

As Joshua has stated, the Pope is only reiterating 2000 years of Catholic teaching on justification by faith.  See what the Pope actually said here:
Article


Donna

So Donna, are you saying that Catholics believe in justification by *faith alone*?

No, because it is not scriptural.  The Pope does not say justification by faith alone.  Joshua has put it well.  Craig, nothing has changed.
Donna

To avoid arguing against straw men, it might also be useful to see what Catholics and Protestants have in common on this issue, as presented in the Catholic - Lutheran Joint Declaration on Justification, here: Catholic-Lutheran Joint Declaration on Justification

Additionally, as I can put on both Protestant and Catholic glasses and thereby roughly understand what each is attempting to protect:-
- Protestant - to protect our trust in God’s love and felicity and relieve our neurotic pre-occupation of polishing our self image;
- Catholic - to protect our trust in grace’s transformational effectiveness,
I can live with the differences of emphasis.
I look forward to our churches finding a creative leap that is able to satisfactorily synthesise both concerns into a new whole.
Eric.

Craig Schwarce’s observation that “it puts the pope at odds with many Catholics” is very reassuring for me.
It reminds me of the unity in diversity that is totally permissable in one’s own family-The true Church.

Donna, the Pope said “Luther’s expression ’sola fide’ is true...” You commented that “The Pope does not say justification by faith alone.”

What, exactly, does he mean by ‘sola fide’ then? If he means something different to Luther’s understanding, then labeling it “Luther’s expression” is misleading.

Did you read my post, Craig? I think you’ll find that I explained the distinction there. You might also notice that Pope Benedict XVI doesn’t affirm all of Luther’s teaching, merely the phrase “faith alone” and only if this particular phrase is qualified.

Yes I did Joshua. You say that Trent was really about “fides nuda” - but the term they used was “sola fide”, so I will take that at face value.

I think B16 has been misleading. Saying “I affirm Luther’s phrase - but I mean something completely different by it” is not to affirm Luther at all. It creates the illusion of agreement where there is none.